Passions Capstone / Basic & Foundational abilities question

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dcltdw
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Passions Capstone / Basic & Foundational abilities question

Post by dcltdw » Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:17 am

Rules 1.2:
Capstone: The Wheel Turns (4 CP) [Perk]: Before you can purchase this capstone, you must have first spent 15 CP across four abilities within this header. Once per event, if a basic negative condition (one that can be caused by a Basic or Foundational ability) would prevent the devout from acting in accordance with their current station, they may spend 10 seconds of appropriate RP to remove that condition. Additionally, once per hour, the devout may remove a positive condition they are benefiting from in order to remove a basic negative condition they are suffering from. This can be done regardless of the Station they are in.
Is there a single list of Basic or Foundational abilities? If not, I can trawl the rulebook and compile one.
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Re: Passions Capstone / Basic & Foundational abilities question

Post by dcltdw » Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:56 am

Answering my own question: did a search on "basic" in the 1.2 rulebook, and I don't see that list, so coolcool, I can compile that this week and post it as a reply here. (I need to carefully re-read the rulebook and lorebook anyways, so yay, easy enough to take notes as I do so.)
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Re: Passions Capstone / Basic & Foundational abilities question

Post by Varanus » Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:22 pm

That would be a useful thing to add to the Glossary on page 33.

My reading is that Foundational abilities are the ones marked as such, and everything else in the rulebook is a Basic ability. 2nd tier abilities would be Advanced. So if it says "Basic or Foundational ability" that means "anything listed in the rulebook as a purchasable ability."
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Re: Passions Capstone / Basic & Foundational abilities question

Post by dcltdw » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:49 pm

After a first pass through the rulebook, I generated a list that I'm not going to be able to quickly recall. So let me change tack here.

I'm hoping the spirit of the rule is:
* if it's a curse or hex: No, doesn't work
* if it's an instant effect (examples include, but are not necessarily limited to: break, crush, disarm, trip): No, doesn't work
* otherwise for lingering effects: Yes, works

If Staff could clarify/confirm, that'd be much appreciated.

---

Okay, exhaustive list time: I'm assuming it works on these, as there are rulebook abilities that let you cast these.

Avert
Disease
Fascinate
Numb
Pacify
Pain
Poison
Repel
Root
Rupture
Sap
Slam
Stasis
Weakened
Wind

I'm guessing it doesn't work on these basic abilities, but I thought I'd doublecheck:
Break
Crush (less common effect)
Disarm
Trip

And there are no ways to generate these effects, so I can't tell if it works on these. Using the spirit of the rule I proposed at the top, I would think so, but by the letter, they wouldn't qualify.
(Common Effects:)
Confusion
Slow
(Less Common Effects:)
Charm
Compel
Daze
Paralyze
Sleep
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Re: Passions Capstone / Basic & Foundational abilities question

Post by ambisinister » Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:34 pm

Not sure how I missed this one. Sorry for the late reply.

The spirit of the rule is that. where condition/effect removal is concerned, basic abilities cure other basic abilities. So the passions capstone would work to remove any condition in the common effects section on page 68. As you surmised, it doesn't work against damage, e.g. getting hit with a pierce, or things that have an instant duration, e.g. disarm or trip.

It will not work against things in the less common effects starting on page 69 such as compel, paralyze, or daze. Those are inflicted by 'advanced' abilities and are therefore more powerful.

If it will make things clearer, I can make sure to use the term condition in the definitions on the effect glossary and refer to said glossary in the capstone's explanation.

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Re: Passions Capstone / Basic & Foundational abilities question

Post by dcltdw » Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:45 pm

ambisinister wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:34 pm
Not sure how I missed this one. Sorry for the late reply.
No worries!
It will not work against things in the less common effects starting on page 69 such as compel, paralyze, or daze. Those are inflicted by 'advanced' abilities and are therefore more powerful.
Nrghhhh. Speaking solely for myself, once I get a chance to play, it'll be very difficult to remember which are common effects and which aren't. "Is this a curse or hex?" is right at the limit of exceptions for me.

I'm guessing this is irrelevant because advanced effects are unlikely to show up in E1, but I feel like the above distinction is making the mistake of adding complexity that is suitable for a computer game but not a live-action game. If you're open to suggestions, I would suggest "I curse you: you are paralyzed for 5 minutes!" means that 1, we keep the simplicity of "hexes and curses are powerful" while also 2, reaping the additional benefit of dropping a call (paralyze) from the rulebook, plus 3, giving Staff the flexibility to change the terms of the paralyze. E.g.: nobody wants to be paralyzed for 10 minutes, but it might be cool/appropriate to say "I curse you: you are paralyzed for 5 minutes, or until I leave the room". Villain sticks around for another 90 seconds, and then makes a Dramatic Exit, and now the players can instantly respond as opposed to twiddle their thumbs for another 3.5 minutes while waiting for their friend to un-paralyze.
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Re: Passions Capstone / Basic & Foundational abilities question

Post by ambisinister » Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:42 am

We've traditionally avoided universal removal effects at the basic level of skills in the past. The passions capstone is an oddity both for the current game and our past efforts, so keeping our current design philosophy in mind, it was determined it should be hobbled, and the typical hobble is for tier 1 things to only work on other tier 1 things. If it proves to be too confusing to use in practice, then the obvious areas of recourse are either to boost it as you suggest and remove its restrictions, hobble it further by limiting it to a narrower band of specific effects that would be easier to keep in mind, or hobble it by making it a resistance to an effect that would prevent one from pursuing their active station and eliminate the removal utility entirely.

I appreciate the suggestion about putting advanced conditions behind cursing, but curses are a very explicit thing and power level within the game world. Metaphysically they are in universe on par with death, and if an encounter features something hurling curses it's mean to be an oh shit moment, not something a sergeant level bad guy might throw in year 2.

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Re: Passions Capstone / Basic & Foundational abilities question

Post by dcltdw » Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:54 am

Keen, thanks for the explanation - much appreciated!
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